Well, there is whole host of things wrong with this situation, which is why I never supported or endorsed "Operation Hammond Freedom" to begin with. There is a lot of misinformation out there at this time on the debacle in Oregon, and certain alternative media outlets seem to be conveniently overlooking particular facts. I suspect that some people in the movement simply want to "kick it off" (a second American revolution), and they don't care if the circumstances of that kick-off are favorable or terrible (I realize "favorable" is relative, but starting this fight from a much stronger position is more than possible). This attitude was prevalent among some at Bundy Ranch, as certain groups refused to dig in positions for a real fight in the hopes that they would be "martyred" for the cause. This, in case you were wondering, is idiotic.
Oath Keepers including founder Stewart Rhodes was the only organization to predict how Ammon Bundy's vague calls for action on the part of the Hammond Family would actually play out. They received a lot of ignorant attacks in response, and yet, they were absolutely right.
Ammon, apparently trying to recreate what cannot be recreated, is looking for another Bundy Ranch stand-off. First, I would point out that such events can't be artificially fabricated. They have to happen in an organic way. Whenever a group of people attempt to engineer a revolutionary moment, even if their underlying motivations are righteous, it usually ends up kicking them in the ass (Fort Sumter is a good example). Ammon's wingmen appear to be Blaine Cooper aka Stanley Blaine Hicks (a convicted felon), and Ryan Payne (who claimed falsely during the Bundy Ranch standoff that he was an Army Ranger and who worked diligently to cause divisions between involved parties on the ground). This was the first sign that nothing good was going to come from the Hammond protest.
I have watched extensive video from the event in Oregon and am privy to accounts from participants. From the information at my disposal, it would appear that Ammon and team did NOT make clear their intentions to occupy the federal wildlife refuge building except to a select few, inviting protesters to "take a hard stand" without revealing what this would entail until they were already in the middle of it all. OPSEC? No, I think not. Obviously the goal was to lure as many protesters to Oregon as possible to the event in the hopes that they would jump on board with the stand-off plan once they were more personally involved. Numerous protesters were rightly enraged once they discovered the ultimate motives behind the event.
The plan is basically this - use the Hammond family as a vehicle (yes, this is what is being done) even though they did not want any kind of standoff to result and specifically refused aid. Occupy federally owned buildings which have little to do with anything of importance and have no symbolic power as did Bundy Ranch. Elicit federal response. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Bundy Ranch had many positive elements going for it, which is why it ended the way it did. This standoff has none of the same elements. I suppose one could ask, though, why do I care?
It's true, these people have every right to make positively naive strategic errors and I don't have to participate directly if I don't like it. The problem, however, is that Ammon and friends have decided they want to be the "tip of the spear" (his words, not mine). I do not think they understand what this means, or they don't care. What it means is, even though I think the entire Oregon plan is ill conceived; literally the WORST possible way to launch a fight against federal corruption, if the federal government moves in a heavy handed manner to kill these people, I and many others will have to fight as well by default when a FAR better tactical and social position could have been achieved. My conscience simply will not allow the rationalization of the deaths of liberty minded people even if their stupidity brought about the circumstances. And frankly, that pisses me off.
As a student of asymmetrics, I understand that choosing the time, place and circumstances is 95% of the battle ahead against an advanced opponent. More organization is needed. More preparedness. More training. More public awareness. The Oregon standoff could steal away what little time we had left.
The Oregon standoff potentially forces the hand of the Liberty Movement, not the hand of corrupt government - the exact reverse of what should be happening.
Mike Vanderboegh has outlined similar thoughts expertly in this article. Everything he has written is exactly what was going through my own mind when I heard of the happenings in Oregon. Ammon Bundy and companions are not the tip of the spear. Not even close. What I do fear is that they are cannon fodder beckoning a nationwide government crackdown to which I and others will then be forced to personally respond to with equal f*cking measure. And all of this on the worst possible terms and at a very inconvenient time (executive actions on gun control mere weeks from now).
And here's the best part; those of us who remain critical of the clinically retarded maneuver being executed here are going to be called cowards and "keyboard warriors"; it's a given. We are all ready to fight for the future of this country, we have been training diligently for it and helping many others along the way. But, because we do not support two dimensional planning there are those that will say - "Now we find out who the real patriots are!"
Against stupid plan = coward against freedom and action. Just watch.
If the Feds use brutality to handle the Oregon conflict, it will indeed "kick-off". There wont be any way to stop it. Just don't get too excited, folks. This is no Lexington or Concord. I really don't know what to call it...
Regards,
Brandon Smith, Founder of Alt-Market.com
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Comments (40)
written by Diane D , January 03, 2016
I awoke to this situation on Jan. 1. I remembered the name 'Ryan Payne' and the problems he caused at the Bundy Ranch. OK's effectively vetted that SOB.
My first question was, 'What is OK's position?' I read Steward Rhodes' "The Hammond Family Does NOT Want an Armed Stand Off, and Nobody Has a Right to Force One On Them". Good enough for me. But like Brandon and Mike Vanderboegh explain, it may not be that simple.
Choosing 'the hill you are willing to die on' is critical (asymmetrics as Brandon explained). Don't die for nothing. Stewart is the lead guy in my book. Folks, if you are not supporting Oath Keepers, please do it NOW!
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written by Tom Hansen , January 03, 2016
Someone of this lot has to be federal asset provocateur or works for some contractor security firm. Payne and Cooper would not trust, why the Bundys do , can only guess. Coming the week BHO gun control EO is rolled out, just too preciously convenient. Like dragging bin laden out of storage to kill him before election time. The Hammonds are being used, the Bundys should help by getting them good legal help, then go home. This is not even a good redux of the ""sage brush"" rebellion of the 80s, its just a ego dance between vatious peacocks or scam artists. Hammonds do not want a stand off,then GO HOME...t
I would love to know who funds people likr Payne and Cooper, or maybe they are self employed and can take time off when they please. But the rhetoric coming from their group sounds like a bad episode of Law and Orders take on angry white guys with guns.
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written by rocky evans , January 03, 2016
I don't know the complete particulars of all that has gone down with the hammond family but if not now, when? How much prep. did the guys at Lexington have? At some point we the people must stand. At some point the gov't. will say let em eat cake and tragedy will follow. I'm seventy one and i've seen this coming for decades because a corrupt gov't will not back off so we must force them and that was the motivation for the second amendment.
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written by TwoHoot , January 03, 2016
Bundy is uninvited, unwelcome and a long way from home. He knew it would be that way before he went.
He will be beat down, humiliated, imprisoned or killed unless he has some crafty tricks up his sleeve. Maybe he does. I hope so. If he doesn't, he is a fool.
If he can make the feds look small and dumb, then he is a leader worth listening to.
We will know in a week or two.Take notes and remember what works and what doesn't.
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written by Jim Klein , January 03, 2016
"I really don't know what to call it..."
Just call it what it is---a bunch of folk who for reasons of their own decided to occupy property that's as much theirs as anyone else's, and shouldn't be there in the first place.
MYOB. Live. Let live. Just be sure nobody does anything stupid in your name, and especially don't pay them to do it. Nobody.
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written by Greg B. , January 03, 2016
You and Stewart are right, Brandon. This is a very bad strategy on Ammon's part. He's in over his head and so are the rest of these folks. And with Obama wanting to push for even more gun control through executive decrees, those useful idiots in Oregon may well provide all the justification he needs to legitimize them.
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written by toughchoice , January 03, 2016
All rightful causes must have their ' set backs'....the hand of 'satan' will deal with this event has it has in the past, with force, as it wants to show what is in store for non compliance to its edicts......All rightful causes have ' learning' curves...this will be another one.....lessons learned here, will be very helpful in the coming defense of self and property.....Eyes wide open....prepare to ' learn' what you know.....imho....Semper Fi
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written by Rainmaker , January 03, 2016
This thing stinks to high heaven. If there are really valuable commodities on that property, why is no one speaking of the "value"? Like in an appraisal. The FEDs don't care about money, they print if for Gods sake. I smell BS several thousand miles away.
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written by brabantian , January 04, 2016
God bless you, Brandon Smith, & all those companions tensely watching with you in this difficult & painful hour
Inside Russia, a major revolt against Vladimir Putin is rumbling with realisations Brandon Smith stated long ago
Russians are themselves waking up to the evidence that Putin is not 'opposition' to US-Nato but a secret 'conflict partner' dragging out bloodshed & death, whilst helping hide the truth from the global public
In other words that Putin is NWO, the foreign partner of US-Nato in 'blue team - red team' fakery
This is partly described in a recent article by Israel Shamir, a Russian-Israeli-Jewish convert to Christianity, describing the growing Russian sense of betrayal by Putin or 'Putin blues'
For example, prominent Russian film director, Nikita Michalkov, a long-time friend & supporter of Putin & video biographer of him, just posted a video in Russian denouncing Putin for allowing the Russian state-supported glossy media machine (such as RT Russia Today), to be telling virtually the same or complementary lies as media propaganda in the West ... and to be shockingly weak re NWO truth
That video in Russia instantly went viral with millions of views within days
Russians realise there has never been any good answer as to why Putin let tens of thousands of Russian-speakers be killed in East Ukraine, after the satanic 2 May 2014 Odessa massacre burning dozens alive & strangling a pregnant woman to death ... not to mention being a total sell-out to Putin's close friend Netanyahu of Israel, allowing Israel to kill Russia's allies inside Syria ... and the betrayal to Nato at the United Nations allowing the attacks on Libya etc etc
Russian military & security services are contemplating how Putin may be dancing with the West to produce an edge-of-World-War-III scenario
We possibly have a potential coup in Russia, with the removal of 'traitor' Putin in favour of someone like Colonel Igor 'Strelkov' Gurkin (hero who led Donbass East Ukraine defence, whom Putin blackmailed to resign by threatening to cut off Donbass supplies) - who will more truly oppose the West & not draw-out & prolong conflicts as is being done in Ukraine & Syria
But we don't really know what will happen in Russia ... anymore than we know what will happen in the USA
Indeed, God bless all those in the US who work & prepare with courage for a moment of truth against the evil ones ... which may now be close at hand
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written by Brandon Smith , January 04, 2016
@Rocky
The "if not now, when?" argument is not really valid. Certainly not in Oregon under the circumstances that Bundy created. Just because someone "takes action" in the name of liberty does not mean that action is intelligent. The Founding Fathers were far smarter in their efforts. They went into the harbor, dumped British tea into the water, embarrassed the crown, then disappeared. Bundy has gone into a static position where he is boxed in, on land that is meaningless strategically and symbolically, and he had to trick people into showing up for the event. This is the worst way to start a revolution. Truly idiotic.
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written by Brandon Smith , January 04, 2016
@Jim Klein
I think you are oversimplifying the issue. It's also a strategic blunder that could set back the liberty movement ten years. Live and let live does not include following blindly...
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written by Montana Tom , January 04, 2016
Smells a lot like John Brown to me.....didn't work out too well with Gen Robert E. Lee taking him down. Idiotic on part of the initiators here in OR but may not set back the course of liberty movement ten years.......4th turnings have their own time line. http://www.civilwar.org/150th-...ferry.html
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written by Stephen Miller , January 04, 2016
"What it means is, even though I think the entire Oregon plan is ill conceived; literally the WORST possible way to launch a fight against federal corruption, if the federal government moves in a heavy handed manner to kill these people, I and many others will have to fight as well by default when a FAR better tactical and social position could have been achieved."
The way I read this comment was: "I, and many others, will join a fight we don't believe in and will probably lose."
If you could explain what you meant, I would appreciate it.
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written by Brandon Smith , January 04, 2016
@Stephen Miller
No, if I meant to say that it was a losing battle then I would have.
What I did say is that it is a terrible way to START a fight. The finishing of the fight will be determined when it is determined and no one will be able to predict the outcome. And I believe in fighting to defend the lives of otherwise good people, even if their plan is stupid.
If the feds overreact and use violence with extreme prejudice (if they "Waco" some folks), then I will have to react to help those people because it is the right thing to do. I believe in THAT, not what Bundy is doing in Oregon.
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written by NIX , January 04, 2016
why is evreyone thinking the same way? Is it perhaps the best time to do this just before the executive order on guns?
If they use violence against patriotes and try to grab the guns of americans will it not infuriate the already sick and tired? The federal gov is murdering americans evrey day, AT LEAST THERE IS SOME COURRAGEOUS PEOPLE OUT THERE. And Brandon you forgot to mention that mabe the people out there a really scared of the oppressor, and i don't think that these people are having a good time when they know they could die out there! IMV there is no good time to do this ''there is only """""A''''''''' time.
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written by Brandon Smith , January 04, 2016
@Nix
You missed the point. I supported and aided the people at the Bundy Ranch standoff because the dynamics MADE SENSE. The Oregon standoff does not make sense. It is impractical and puts the movement on weaker footing strategically. If a plan is stupid, why jump headfirst into it? Why not make a BETTER PLAN that people can support? No one is obligated to support a stupid plan just because it is the only plan offered at the time. This is called "two dimensional thinking".
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written by unkown , January 04, 2016
its about time they make a stand and time is short you have obama that destorying the usa and not giving to hoots about what the people want you have a goverment that looking out for they're selfs for the most part you have a money system that go's agenst the founding fathers ideas i beleave they waited long enough and its about time we the people do are jobs and throw off this crupt goverment and wipe the hole system clean
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written by Poeticus , January 04, 2016
This battle is shaping up just like so many other battles. Some people just want to act regardless of the possible outcome and others want to think before they act.
What kind of person would you as Americans rather follow?
I would much rather fight an inteligent battle for a good cause than a dumb one.
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written by Poeticus , January 04, 2016
Every war needs a Commander who is the strategist. It also needs a brute who is the big club in the strategists hand. During World War ll Dwight Eisenhower was the strategist and Gen. George Patten was the brute(club) in Eisenhower's hand. Patten was not allowed to move without the direction of Eisenhower. Thus Patten was used as a club effectively.
In Oregon we have the "club" running out ahead of the Strategists with possible tragic consequences.
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written by Slayer of Sacred Cows , January 04, 2016
I wouldn't exactly say they are fighting for liberty, rather that they are fighting for tyranny that they simply find tolerable, as ALL government is tyranny, even the non-sensical "representative" government silliness.
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written by Michael Butler , January 04, 2016
I think the Bundy's are likely the primary targets (for payback purposes), they've been pulled out of their Nevada stronghold onto what...federal property. Who knows this property/area better than anyone? The Feds. Another tactical disadvantage. It will be important to ascertain for the record who selected this facility as a target, whether it was whispered into Ammon's ear or whatever. My guess is it is chock full of listening devices and surveillance equipment, so anything they do from that 'command post' could be compromised and anyone there in grave danger. I doubt they swept the area using electronic countermeasures or even a top to bottom search of the facility to ascertain whether the facility was prepared in advance for their arrival...just a hunch. The mainstream media is already preparing the 'deadender militia/patriot' narrative with people 'saying goodbye to their families' and 'going there to die' and all manner of crap...these people are making presumptions about things that are purely speculation/hypothetical, unless of course, you know how the script is going to play out, and it likely plays out with Obama's EOs on gun control among other things. The powers that be seem to have an agenda they are pushing heavily and are getting it off to a 'bang' in 2016 early...the first Monday of the year and they've got all cylinders pumping on this, down to Montel Williams fanning the flames, you can't make this stuff up. Even scripted events can be turned in a positive direction, but they've certainly got the deck stacked against them with these provocateurs guiding the developments....provocateurs that have long been identified and people have ignored the information at their peril. Many of these provocateurs were also at Bundy Ranch.
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written by Chaban , January 04, 2016
Can you please post a link to that video?
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written by TwoHoot , January 04, 2016
@brabantian
Here is the original Ammon Bundy video link. The video is near the bottom of the article.
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2015/12/30/militiamen-ranchers-in-showdown-for-soul-of-burns/
Is that the video you wanted to see?
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written by Seen2013 , January 04, 2016
" I suspect that some people in the movement simply want to "kick it off" (a second American revolution), and they don't care if the circumstances of that kick-off are favorable or terrible"
I would have to concur. The issue here is:
-no local support
-Sheriff named them insurrectionists seeking to overthrow the county and central government.
-Ammon Bundy's group is bracketed aka trapped in a pocket.
I'm no expert in strategy and tactics, but I'd say this was strategically and tactically flawed.
"The Oregon standoff could steal away what little time we had left."
I'm thinking likely; considering, the Psychopaths-Sociopaths have been stymied normalizing and promoting:
1. public-private partnerships/mergers to solve man-made climate change.
2. Neo-Malthusian resurgence to power through overpopulation and man-made climate change, and feeble-minded means mental illness/defect that acted as a catalyst in 1870-90 preceding population control of 1906-1960 by redefining militia to 'regulated militia is governmental controlled' and feeble-minded barred access and entry.
3. They've been trying to link Liberty movement and supporters to terrorists and Russian Astroturf/Insurgents/Insurrectionists since what was it 2011-12 particularly via the Putin worship?
4. Guilty Until Proven Innocent, Social Justice Activism is centrally a promotion of guilty until proven innocent...
Considering, the Sheriff has named Ammon Bundy's outfit as 'insurrectionists seeking to overthrow the County and Federal Government' I'm thinking that it'd be a miracle if Liberty movement doesn't lose time...
"The Oregon standoff potentially forces the hand of the Liberty Movement, not the hand of corrupt government - the exact reverse of what should be happening."
Gun control and population control go hand in hand also known as gun control and democide...
"I really don't know what to call it..."
1. The beginnings of the 'Bundy Firearms, Ammunition, and Mental Health Act of 2016'.
2. Liberty Movements' Waterloo is the best I can come up with; I can't remember the battle the blunders cost over 60K or whole regiments to get destroyed as a result... Waterloo seems apt but not accurate.
3. If they plant Russian communications or etc after the siege...
"Against stupid plan = coward against freedom and action. Just watch."
I'm thinking that Ammon Bundy got played and played big time. This was very short-sighted, and I'm thinking that he allowed his idealism to enable it...
To the people who want to just kick off revolution, you don't become a martyr for liberty and freedom by becoming an aggressor; the Oregon situation was an act of aggression, a poorly thought out act of aggression. You do not gain the moral high ground, you do not acquire and wield the balance of power, and you sure as daisies don't hold balance of power's momentum/tempo.
The Oregon situation is petty, ill thought out, and ultimately aggressive. You ultimately play right into Tyrant Psychopaths-Sociopaths hands; you become a martyr or example for tyrannical rule.
Now, unless you are seeking to be an example promoting tyranny, you should stop and think it through.
Search into Tienanmen Square, yeah the guy who steps in front of a Communist Chinese tank while the camera is watching while outside the square people who tried it especially afterwards get run over. Just kicking it off is like stepping in front of an Tyrannical Psychopath-Sociopath driving a tank, and you expect the tyrant to stop? Please, they did that like Mao offered dissidents a chance to grant feedback and promptly rounded every participant who responded criticizing him and executed every single one...
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written by Chaban , January 04, 2016
I meant the Michalkov video...
It's hard to know what's truly going in Russia when you don't speak Russia and pro-Kremlin sites pollute the Internet.
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written by Suspect1 , January 04, 2016
You say the founders were smarter.....you bet they were. I have no doubt, from what I've read, that The Boston Massacre was an engineered event. Tragic though it was, it was the catalyst that galvanized many disparate potential allies in New England. I know that the lead up to the American Revolution predates the history that any current patriot recalls, I am confident that all of the chess moves are not recorded by history. Where we do agree is that i cannot watch liberty minded folk be slaughtered without the promise of.....not vengeance, but not allowing their blood to be spilled in vain.
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written by Bright Torch of Liberty , January 04, 2016
Brandon, I agree that this is not the case on which to start a revolution, and Bundy's group should stand down.
HOWEVER, what seems to be getting overlooked for the most part is that the Hammond's have been persecuted vindictively by the federal gov't for many years to pressure them in to selling their property. The Hammond's are not calling for the Bundy group's action, but I wonder if that is, at least in part, because they're simply tired and afraid given everything the feds have put them through, and still could pile on them.
The feds' agenda for taking over significant amounts of land and diminishing property rights has been in full swing for many years, particularly in Western states. This Hammond case is one that should be highlighted to help expose this nefarious agenda (simply google "rewilding agenda 21" and you get a huge number of articles on just one significant aspect of this agenda.)
Brandon, I look forward to your thoughts on this.
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written by Lars Olfen , January 04, 2016
"Oath Keepers including founder Stewart Rhodes was the only organization to predict how Ammon Bundy's vague calls for action on the part of the Hammond Family would actually play out."
Why the need, in over 95% of missives posted, is it necessary to illustrate "so and so predicted correctly"?
Just curious.
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written by Brandon Smith , January 05, 2016
@Lars
If someone called it ahead of time while being attacked, then should they not receive credit and perhaps an apology from the people that were wrong and antagonistic? If the liberty movement can't give credit where credit is due, then who will?
Just curious.
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written by Brandon Smith , January 05, 2016
@Torch
Highlighting the Hammond's case is all well and good, but the Bundy plan is idiotic and self serving. It has little or nothing to do with the Hammonds at this point. They were merely exploited as a vehicle for Bundy's own purposes. How exactly is Bundy's takeover of a meaningless federal building and artificially creating a standoff going to help the Hammond's or anyone else? I have yet to hear anyone explain the logic behind his plan. No one has actually made a convincing argument, only empty appeals to emotion over reason. This tells me that the situation is doomed to failure.
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written by Agent76 , January 05, 2016
Jan 1, 2016 Stewart on Hammond Family Situation in Oregon
Stewart was asked about his views on the Hammond Family Situation during an Oath Keepers of Idaho event in Sand Point, Idaho.
https://youtu.be/b8HaFEPVJSA
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written by John Abizaid , January 05, 2016
I believe that Smith is one of our best strategists, astute, and well-informed. And yet, there is something terribly wrong with this article:
1. These idealists are risking their lives, liberty, and
pursuit of happiness; they deserve compassion and admiration, even if one disagrees with their precise tactics.
2. No one knows what would trigger a revolution. This could be the event. It will certainly draw lines in the sand, and everyone on our side will understand that we're at war. So if they die (I hope not!), they will not have died in vain.
3. Smith blames, but does NOT say what strategy does he have in mind. Does he have a better way? If so, what is it?
I shall know he is sincere if I see this comment posted. And then, I'll be curious to see an answer--maybe an entire article?
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written by Brandon Smith , January 05, 2016
@John
There is nothing wrong with the article, only in the assumptions of Bundy supporters.
No offense, but you have this all backwards. It is not my job to produce an alternative plan to Bundy's. It is YOUR job, or his job, to justify logically why his plan should be followed. No one seems to be willing to do that. I have not seen a single valid argument for it, only emotionally driven arguments like "If not now then when?" or "It's too late now, we have to support them for better or worse..." Anyone with any tactical sense would not take such arguments seriously.
My next article which will be published tomorrow mentions some examples of better planning or better situations to make a stand on. However, I'll say again, if you believe my support for Bundy should be given then you are going to have to explain in logical and strategic terms (not emotional) why his plan deserves my support. The bottom line - if it is a stupid plan it does not deserve backing from anyone because it will ultimately do more harm to the movement than good. The burden of proof is on Bundy and his supporters, not the people who they are demanding reinforcement and promotion from.
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written by John Abizaid , January 05, 2016
Glad to see my comment posted.
For me, the key is the strategy we choose and the preparations we make. All traditional approaches, including the Oregon standoff now, look dismal. But, just before coming here I followed a Zerohedge.com link to a thought-provoking alternative:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/06/17/the-al-sabbah-brigade/
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written by Frank Brady , January 05, 2016
Although my sympathies are with those who resist the high-handed and unconstitutional activities of the BLM in this specific instance and of Washington generally, this smells like a set-up. It is conveniently far to close to Obama's "executive orders" on guns which he announced amid a flood of tears (probably chemically induced) this morning on national television. Obama's comments didn't amount too much more than emoting. However, watch the details in the executive orders with respect to "mental health reporting", the definition of what it means to be "in the business" of selling guns, and for laying the foundation of a national gun registry.
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written by Seen2013 , January 05, 2016
John Abizaid , January 05, 2016
"1. These idealists are risking their lives, liberty, and
pursuit of happiness; they deserve compassion and admiration, even if one disagrees with their precise tactics."
I don't see justifying or granting an opportunity to link the Liberty Movement as terrorists, Russian Astroturf/Insurgents, or otherwise feeble-minded aka mental illness/defect in the regime's bid to re-institute 1870-90 redefining of militia to governmental controlled militia is a 'regulated militia' deserves admiration. They've been trying for years to do precisely this.
"2. No one knows what would trigger a revolution. This could be the event. It will certainly draw lines in the sand, and everyone on our side will understand that we're at war. So if they die (I hope not!), they will not have died in vain."
Lets change the setting to make what it means to bracketed or otherwise trapped in a pocket means.
Lets say they occupied Liberty Island instead in a locality more acceptable by jobs, tourism, and businesses relay on precisely Top-Down Wealth Effect and redistribution requiring Plutocracy and top-down political solutions.
There's no local support, and you've called for aid. The regime has two options out the door:
1. Create a corridor to allow supporters in but not out.
2. Arrest supporters upon arrival.
Next, the regime has 3 options:
1. Waco II out the door. They certainly have the support of their base to do so...
2. Let them run out of food if they trap or otherwise hunt; they have justification to Waco them. You know booby traps meant to maim or kill enforcers/shots fired.
3. Let them run out of food and arrest them.
Dead or Alive they can plant evidence linking them to terrorist organizations, Russia, China, and they have all the justification needed for the boot to the door in the middle of the night with not so much as martial law, state of emergency, or shelter in place. Compliments to Jade Helm, the assets for those who want to 'kick it off' start a battle with a 72 hour window. If they miss anyone, there's always NDAA...
The principle point is strategically this is a serious blunder; I agree with Mike Adams that they should surrender while the Progressives, Bismarkianists, are exposed for the democidal-genocidal Tyrants they are.
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written by tony newbill , January 06, 2016
These are Ranchers who are talking about Obama using the antiquities act act to put them out of business and this is going to happen all over the west !!!!!!!
https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/videos/939409412802534/
https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/videos/939148952828580/
Listen to this @ 1:09:40 mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6BYPzFM_r0
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written by justsayin , January 07, 2016
Ammon Bundy is the Leeroy Jenkins of the liberty movement.
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written by Barbara Farfalla , January 07, 2016
This situation has all the ingredients and build ups as did the Arab spring revolts and uprisings in Egypt and other ME countries with their less fortunate outcomes. An event, justified of complaint, disapproval and grievance by citizens, toward a totalitarian government describes the Hammond situation. This family certainly most certainly had its life sucked dry by the US Federal government.
I do not see wherein the current occupation will bear any fruit for anyone at this particular time. What I do see is an opportunity for provocateurs to enter the citizens group and cause an escalation of potential violence...this is the play book of the Arab springs. they started out as a legitimate complaint by citizens, and these protests were infiltrated by provocateurs to cause an other wise non violent situation to escalate into such violence that militia were called in. These provocateurs are not local citizens but paid mercenary types....they are paid to look like a champion of the people, in reality they could care less about anything except being paid. they are used. it is really a time to take a deep inhale.
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written by Virginia Dare , January 11, 2016
Obviously Bundy has his own agenda in Oregon. But, that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be looking at ways to use this event to push back against the Feds.
Obviously the real intent behind the Feds continued harassment of the Hammonds is to drive them off their land using financial warfare. Mainly deny them the ability to produce income to pay bills and taxes.
The Liberty Movements job should now be to start a go fund me account to help the Hammonds hire lawyers to fight the Fed’s actions in court and help them to pay the bills, such as property taxes, necessary to hold onto their land.
There are more ways to fight back than using weapons and attention seeking opportunists. The liberty movement needs to begin fighting back using the same weapons of war the Feds use themselves. That involves money, lawyers, the courts, and the internet itself to get the Liberty message across.
Once the Bundy’s and their entourage have been dealt with the Feds will still be there breathing down the necks of the Hammond’s doing everything in their power to expropriate their lands. At that point the Hammond’s cause will be swept under the rug and the Feds will still be attempting to drive them off their property.
That means there is limited time to extract as much value out of the standoff before the general public’s short attention span is diverted back to the Kardashians. If the Liberty movement is able to achieve the goals of raising funds to help the Hammonds take their fight to the Federal courts and help drive public opinion then we’ll need the Bundy’s extend their standoff to keep the illegal actions of the Feds in the public eye.
I realize the Liberty Movement will be using the Bundy’s to further their goals, but the Bundy’s placed themselves in this situation. But, the real fight should be to help the Hammond’s fight the Feds to keep their land.
From this point the Liberty Movement should be doing everything in its power to raise funds to encourage the states to demand all Federal owned lands be handed back to them. And, from those victories a call for succession from overbearing and heavy handed control freaks situated within the 10 square mile swamp called Washington D.C.
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